On the differences between Theology, Philosophy and Science in the Srimad Bhagavatam,Rasaraja Prabhu



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On the differences between Theology, Philosophy, and Science in the Srimad Bhagavatam by Rasaraja Prabhu at ISKCON Chowpatty
Sunday Feast Class by Rasaraj Prabhu at ISKCON Chowpatty on 26th May 2019

Rasaraj Prabhu Prabhu Lecture on Krishna Consciousness is a Science at ISKCON Chowpatty

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on and the court evasion of in the key namacarya Savard article King James akahoshi krishna chaitanya prabhu nityananda sri advaita guitar – she was sorry Govinda key apple donkey donkey Chicago Miami Mikey sheep up today with Rosie de vikke Sridhar namsan Kenton Keith Hari Krishna maha-mantra key see the potential distribution program key Sheila proper scientific presentation program he came on and the all-glorious assemble devotees sri krishna all glories assemble devotees sri krishna all were disassembled devotees writers although rusalka rashida power path and gauranga so i should thank the management devotees here for kindly inviting me to give this program today I'll be leaving in a few days overseas good that I was able to come here very nice decoration of the deities very wonderful we beautiful I think they have put okay so something on the DT is my Honda on the Arkadiy nobody's seen algae he has got something on him and so I want to speak today on this topic what is the difference between our theology our philosophy and our science want to invoke a spiritual auspiciousness by reading a verse from sheer logic of a Goswami when she received a Goswami was asked to speak Shima bhagavatam because his authority from him baka with him is descending and the form in which we know now and he said may the supreme personality of Godhead who enlivens the materially created bodies of the elements by lying down within the universe and who in his Purusha incarnation causes the living being to be subjected to the 16 divisions of material modes which are his generator be pleased to decorate my statements this work I am presenting to you today is based on more than 40 years of work and it is not the unauthorized speculations of a insignificant material mind but it is a major project of shri chaitanya mahaprabhu himself this directly his own project therefore it is not within my power to explain this properly when the time comes even if I don't say people will understand and if the time is not right no matter how much I try to say people may not understand so therefore I'm praying to the supreme lord following joshi kousei goswami and sure profile that he be pleased to make this presentation meaningful in whatever way he wants to all of you and probed by the rights in the purport as a fully dependent devotee Shakira Goswami unlike a mundane man who is proud of his own capability he knows the pressure of the personality of Godhead so that his statements may be successful and we appreciated by the hearers I don't know whether people at the back can see it probably not if you can see raise your hand on the back oh you can see him okay fine I think you people should have a bigger screen not like life is not Nicorette ya can switch off the lights please so that it can be seen better if you ask generally devotees what is our philosophy isn't it what would he say is our philosophy then any other things yeah but what are some more basic points also will tell any huh we have bought not body spirit soul yes or appointment so we will think that these are our philosophy if you ask people they'll say that so I put some of them down I'm not the body somebody was saying I am spirit soul God has formed Krishna as the supreme personality of Godhead pure devotional service Raja Krishna as a goal of life but these are not actually will be considered our philosophy scholars will say that this is our theology they said this is all the elements of your theology what is your philosophy they will asked some time ago I was giving a class long quite some time ago maybe 15 20 years ago in Bangalore temple and quite some time ago and I made this point and then one day what he was sitting in the front he said you are very correct because right next to our temple there is a Christian seminary and the seminary one Western priest had come I went to meet him he was a like a scholarly priest then when he asked us what is our philosophy and when I said these things he said no these are your theology what is your philosophy are you following so we must be able to answer this question because the term philosophy has a specific meaning in modern academic discourse you know people take a degree in philosophy in the West not in India in heaven this is it philosophy degree and it has no meaning they'll put Vivekananda Mothma Gandhi philosophy of Mahatma Gandhi very common back they're not considered philosophers in the West of course we may ask well who cares for the West you know that's okay but we can say goodbye to everybody you know the world is run today by Western modes of thought simply a fact and we will see Prabhupada also emphasizing that so the term philosophy not only in the modern academic time even in the olden times the word philosophy had you know a particular meaning there shanna suggestion was they had a particular meaning of course much more sophisticated but to understand that we must at least know philosophy in modern terms if we don't even know that and if you only prepare to give theology that's not so good and I wrote down some definition for modern Western philosophy you know on which I am you know I have some kind of a standing in the Western world you may not know if you go to Stanford encyclopedia of philosophy which is gold standard you will find mine work mentioned so I'm putting my ref definitions mean this is pakka so philosophy refers to an effort to empirically define certain set of terms and this term some example terms or causality reality knowledge objects concepts you have to talk about that if you say I'm not the body and spirit solid so right theology are you following we must be able to know you're not following you understand I'm trying to bring out the difference so this is what causality I have put in a different thing because I this light can be switched off hmm all the lights in fact you can except the altar thank you so yes you can switch off all this noise in front of you just know it went off came back on causality reality and all that and they also try to define these terms and then discuss problems arising out of such definitions and they try to clarify antecedent assumptions you see if we say Krishna is God there is an antecedent assumption that there is a God we may not know it so philosophers always clarify antecedent assumptions and these turn out to be pretty useful for science too so philosophy is important for science and you can so in on these questions we must have our answers so in the bottom you will find the theology philosophy and also science in the modern terms that's my point if you didn't know that and if you only knew what is what we will see is folk theology it's not even academic theology its folk theology our common sense theology you'll see why and then then that is you know we will not be able to be relevant in a contemporary way and what is science the term science also has a specific academic meaning it is also is an entirely empirical exercise and they try to discover order amidst our experience using the language of mathematics if you drop an apple it falls down and it is a scientist who tries to find regularities he that if you drop it from the same height the same object it'll always fall at the same time to the ground and even if the object is different it still falls at the same time more or less approximately if you neglect air friction therefore he says why is it having this regularity then well there must be a relation between height and the time it takes to come down that must be fixed there must be a formula and then they write they find it height h equal to UT plus half ay T Square you don't read it in schools s equal to UT plus of it is good it's a regularity sometimes the regularity is to be discovered it is not obvious in fact people didn't know that you know objects dropped from the same height always fall at the same time so it required a saint that scientist discovers order and this order he expresses using the language of mathematics F equal to Ma is equal to UT plus half it is correct like that so then he puts this order to use in the form of technologies this order is not a simple thing it is the creation of the scientist the mathematical formula that he imposes on the order it isn't it is there something called under determination of data under determination of theory by data for the same data you can have different different equations it's possible in principle anyway I'm not going to go into all of that so the point is they put this order to practical use mimic technologies and we use them the order may or may not be the way nature works for example suppose you you're a scientist and you believe there is no post office that is no postmaster that there's a natural according to each letter moves so you can find it that's a point you can actually do experiment you can actually take a large number of envelopes millions of them and you can actually put you can on you can use the same denomination stamp maybe say one rupee I don't know how many times crossed these days wonder piece times only and you put wonderful stamps only so that you can convert the amount of stamp you put to wait because it is number of stands multiplied by the weight of wonderful stamp and you find that whenever you put stamp things move and if you don't put it doesn't move so we will see that there's a causal relation there and you can do some experiments you can put ten rupee stamp it goes to Delhi or Bangalore but if you don't put you know if you put ten rupees it doesn't go to Middle East and if you put thirty rupees it goes to Middle East you send it but letter ask the person you are doing experiment they say they got in but with 30 rupees it doesn't go to America when you put hundred rupee stamp it goes down so finally you find the correlation between the weight of the stamp and the distance the letter moves and now you can write a formula for this and the post letter will always move according to this and now he can say oh I don't believe there is any postmaster or post office I know there's a causal lock or individual you put it in the box of course we still don't know how the post box works but when you put it it some moves it and a very simple example of how science can discover empirical order and if actually it is not merely fitting the data to some idea that's very important you can then use this formula to actually make machines science also makes novel predictions as another criterion in other words it makes predictions other than the data for which it was designed to fit that's called normal predictions popper said that besides falsifiability that the theory should have novel predictions so it is there in the history of science for example in quantum mechanics Planck developed well you know the idea of quantum postulated explain what's called blackbody radiation but later it was used to explain photoelectric effect it was later explained to use atomic spectra and it went on like that therefore it is used to explain data for which it was not designed so you can't say that they are simply curve fitting they are fitting some theory to the data so for all these reasons sine has tremendous persuasive power and so if you want to say Krishna consciousness is a science then what you have to do according to this some find some order formulated in mathematics and produce technology there is no use in simply saying you know science is nonsense this and that thinking the proper criticized science Prabhupada it is far better for us to think the proper criticized us and not the scientists it is more humble otherwise we have are the following I give the example like you saw you are going on the street there's a big bungalow and one very you know guy in poor dress and Tundras and all that he came out and you saw him and he said how come you are coming out of this mouse he says no no I just I was watching a walking and my shoe just came out of my feet and went inside so I went to pick it up and came and he was not even wearing his shoe what up here not even wearing I should annoyed I went inside I couldn't find it so then I'm temple and he believed it and went on after some time a policeman comes by and they say did he see that guy was you know tatters and you yeah I saw him was coming out of that house so he's a thief he's thief really yah yah yah yah he was trying to steal from he said that he was just going there this and you believed it yeah what kind of a fool are you so who is equal to sizing is equal to sizing the tea for you hmm so Prabhu posture that the scientists arguments are so of course it is based on science and if you want to really defeat them you have to do science like this based on bhagavatam not simply criticize but you know those arguments when it comes to actually explaining why they are doing science the real reason they do science for is for this to imagine an order or to observe some order that is there and to imagine the law and use that law to make technology that's all the science and it's very powerful don't say yeah I'm a world-class expert on this whether you're giving certificate or worth you don't know these things I have done 40 years of research on this what do you mean by yeah no listen carefully very very deep things it's not such a simple thing I myself still thinking about these things after 40 years you see what I mean that we our mind is running all the time and whatever I am saying you are processing we will see that later the green glass the example I gave last time I'd repeat it I'm sorry but you have to be very careful this is not something you can understand you have to simply hear one day you will understand that is how I am that's why I'm telling that I can't even explain these things I said Krishna once it can be explained in spiritual life the first thing you have to be told is what that you're a number one fool the real teaching cannot begin and outside we don't tell very polite to people but once you come inside the first thing that has to be drummed into you is that we are number one fool Krishna told Arjuna bringing exams a process a without that it is Prabhupada says in perfection of yoga that the sadhu who speaks good words is any enemy because he says it has to be the attachment to the mind has to be cut and to cut anything you need something sharp and the gods are those words are sharp words to be used so please imagine listen very carefully and now I don't forgot well what I said when you kept on saying yeah yeah yeah what did I say so when we sit in back of them classes another disease we have nobody can tell me anything that I don't know you may say a new story I did not know okay maybe fine then I'll use it also basic philosophy I know but you don't know if lots of me you know something called theology which is a hard you know very horrible is twisted thing out of shape we will see that so we have to be very careful so that fellow came the thief said like that and I believed it so he said you're a fool his argument of so bad so I said ok I accept I was a fool for believing him but he must also be a fool for saying it no yeah if he believed what he said but the thief never believes what he says does he believe he knows is a thief so scientists never believed in the explanations they give for origin of the world or life should know that because all the theories of provisional so essentially Prabhupada is telling that you are fooled for listening to that not the son for scientists you will see how much is facing them I'm going to show up codes proper proper said they effectually they are realizing God Krishna it's their goods it's not that proper was putting down scientists at all so of course from his viewpoint of course scientists are also fools but that's not our viewpoint we actually believed before prophet came he believed all these things and proper gave such simple arguments to say they're wrong we couldn't think of it proper was a once in Europe and then one in Sweden and one professor came he was saying that why do you say that evolution is wrong you know from you know atoms and molecules you know come from then chemicals came from chemicals came the first life maybe an amoeba a single-cell then it grew into life what's wrong about it proper said if you have lot of money and you start a company who you'll appoint first the pure or the managing director so he said the managing director so if Krishna is creating the world who will create first amoeba Brahma the proper self now this is not a criticism of the scientist this is the criticism of us that we were such fools that we believed in it we never we read in schools and colleges we never questioned it are you following this reasonable or not so better we take the proper is saying via fools and that it makes sense because it is a duty first and foremost duty of the spiritual master to point out that they're fools that's why I'm saying that so let us come to something how in bhagavatam there is theology philosophy and science and we may not even know that we don't know all these three things native mighty ology in our science not philosophy Krishna is the cause of all causes right surah Baqarah Nakano what does it mean can somebody explain no cause what do you mean by Krishna is the cause he is the reason behind it very good what you think what do we mean by the term cause we usually carry a folk notion of course folk notion means uninformed folk notion of disease we may have medicine popular common sense common sense notion reason why something happens that's what you are saying right it's a cost of beena that's the reason it happened but you have replaced one word by another word what do you mean by cos I mean reason what do you mean by reason it causes it makes sense to us in common sense what is that this is moving why is it moving I pushed it so my pushing is the cause it's a reason yeah but what do you mean by cause why didn't you say that you know this event followed that event why are you saying it caused this event is he so a more precise definition would be that if a then B if not a then not B if an event a is the cause of B if and only if whenever a happens B happens and when a doesn't happen B doesn't happen it's a little bit more precise but still that doesn't besides saying that whenever a happens B happens on a a does not happen B does not happen you don't mean anything by saying cause in other words there was one person called David Hume who argued that this definition implies necessity that it always be like this and he argued it's a long argument I won't go into that then Hume challenged this David Hume what he was arguing is that if I say that I dropped this and it makes a sound so why did he get the sound because it hit the ground now he said that Katrice paribus it means everything remaining the same you no idea this will always happen suppose you a billiard ball come and hits on a ball and it moves you say this cause this to move this is a job of philosophy first of all you cannot justifiably say that an object touched another object it is not possible for one object to touch another object do you know why way no that's the modern scientific explanation but logical explanation is that every object occupies space uniquely you can there cannot be two objects at the same place correct for two objects to touch some parts of them must occupy the same place that's not possible that's a simple logical argument that explanation he gave is based on science and that may change for example in science you can say there are no electrons now therefore that explanation based on electron repulsion would be incorrect that may have been right maybe some time ago 50 years ago 60 years ago this thing that you learn in school that there is a nucleus and there's a electron going round and round it's all wrong an electron has a negative charge that's from particle physics but from quantum mechanics the electron is a wavefunction and no one knows what it is and then it connects to that particle physics ideas statistically and those are all complicated issues let's not worry about it so Hume actually challenged this idea by saying that something called induction is involved induction is generalization over data so he said that every time it hits actually it moves but you never know why he died whether it may stop or it may make the other thing move well there is a field inside physics called thermodynamics in which there is something called the problem of arrow of time which says that every time you put cold milk on the stove it is not necessary that the milk should get hot sometimes the milk can get colder and the Stout can get hotter it's possible according to science this probability is so low that it may not happen that's a different matter but in principle it can happen so that's known as the problem of the arrow of time but we strongly believe that can never happen why that's another question so so many issues are there so Hume said that the notion of costs is generalized through induction you see many times things are happening and then you say it'll always happen like that so a cause is a generalization of your observations with an implication of necessity it will always happen like that and he said that he cannot prove and his argument is right and for that reason you know the problem of induction is there and people are still talking about it now you might say why should we waste our time on all of this proper this have you seen proper discuss such things no right Robert makes simple philosophy I'm not the body and spirit soul chant Hare Krishna take Krishna Prasad on this he would fort everybody distribute books yes said these things right why should maybe you know no shrila prabhupada on induction you go to vada Basin you write induction you will find many many times proper writes here is one from raja vidya there are two processes for attaining knowledge one is inductive and the other is deductive the deductive method is considered to be more perfect we may make a premise such as all men are mortal we may study this man died and that man died like every time this hit is goes and after seeing that so many men have died we may generalize that all men are mortal that's induction the major defect of this inductive method is that in our experience is limited how do you know all men are mortal maybe someone will be immortal we have not seen so you cannot prove therefore Hume argued that science is not based on causality that's it it's very deep issue we won't go into that we may have never seen a mad person who is not mortal but we are judging this on our personal experience which is limited finite propagation value this is our philosophy you know are you following this so proper does written philosophy and you cannot know the philosophy in bhagavatam unless you know what is philosophy the outside world and so you read only the bugger with them these things you may you may just think like you know oh there is showing out there fools know well who deep issues you know proper concludes in the same thing our senses have limited power and there are so many defects in our conditional state the inductive process consequently is not always perfect whereas the deductive process from a source of perfect knowledge is perfect the Vedic process is such a process so he says you may not generalize over observations and get dependent knowledge but if you get knowledge from a perfect source then it's perfect now the philosopher academicians would regard this alternative of Vedic process of knowledge as a theological response not a philosophical response or a scientific response are you following this if you say oh this is inductive process there's a problem of induction they'll say yes we know so therefore we have this other process of descending knowledge from perfect source that's not an empirical process I love to tea we explained more about it but they'll say this is not now you might say but if proper that's given as the Vedic process as alternative why should we worry if it's regarded as theology we can say but Prabhu pal my gain contradicts you on that in other words we we really don't know what proper is written but we just claim big big things why is the induction we're giving Sunday class is a waste of time so instead of talking about Krishna why are we talking about induction no it is also intro provokes religion will not be accepted in modern civilization if it is not accepted from a scientific viewpoint very first book the proper throat easy journey to other planets so should we learn first theology or science apart from Puranas our Vedic literature's proper this rating scientifically it is a modern science according to their way we can convince Puranas you may not believe but if you say you believe I may not believe promises right humbly but scientific truth has to be accepted therefore there is a Krishna consciousness proper have said is not a theology it is not a philosophy it's a science it is from science that you have to derive philosophy and from philosophy you have to derive theology this is the process but if you simply read and understand because of your past Punia all of us have passed Punia therefore for us certain things we don't waste time we accept because you have experienced long time ago thank ah hi 140 long time ago I gave it to rock at IIT maybe 30 years ago not now before maybe before most of you were born so I gave a talk Neil Armstrong is not the first man to go to moon that was the topic I gave in IIT Bombay then to 300 students came because there is a boys but they're not like now things are changing now for much more you can't you know make such presentation now I got to make him let me part of integral part of the academic process so when they I asked them all how do you how many people don't believe this that Nia I'm strong was not the first man to go to moon nobody raised their hand I said but the end of this class all of you will place saying that you believe this then I spoke about you know okay in various ways and I brought in you know this a final idea because I try to argue through science whatever it is in those days and I said that you know this idea of soul taking birth and higher planets and all those things and therefore when you you can go to higher planets when you do Punia and then when you come back you remember that whether you may not remember explicitly or not it goes as part of faith inside due to past experience and therefore you see if that is there just like have you seen a rocket you know but do you believe it exists he has not seen a rocket but he's probably educated you're an engineer or something like right you have some engineering degree what degree come to BTech M take me take me something you've got a bachelor's degree in engineering and he understands how cycle works mechanical and as the mechanical advantage you know you put put the pedal and it goes and then he understands how motors work the electrical motors then he understands how you know aerodynamics works and he knows a little bit how planes fly you can at least understand when explanation is given and he can extend and says therefore rockets must be better you have seen cars you have seen planes you have seen other things so I explained extrapolate and say there must be like that so button now if you ask a rich avila in the street they are no longer there but if there was a rickshaw Allah and he may also say I have not seen a rocket but he's not seeing and him not seeing or not on the same level similarly someone might say I have not seen God a devotee and someone the road may say I have not seen God it's not on the same level because they got so many other experiences of going to other planets and coming back they believe that so the gap is less so I was basically talking to them about how this is evidence so if you accept this wave point then it is not almost all of you have born in India means he wrote and Pune I must have gone terribly planets and come back so other humans so at the end I asked them how many of you believe now that I am strong is not the first man to go to moon and almost all of them raised their hands okay nothing great was achieved but something was discussed so in any case I don't know why I said that but that's a commercial break coming back to the main thing scientifically it's a modern science of prophecies again in easy general at a time and material science predominates all subjects including the tenets of religion that means including theology it would be enlightening to see the principles of eternal religion of man from the viewpoint of modern scientists this is actually a statement of Radha Krishna the Prophet coats and accepts in easy generate other planets room conversation in Mexico City in 1972 now you're a scientist if you are actually a devotee then you try to explain because you are scientists your explanation from the scientific viewpoint how God has entered how he is acting that will be very well received by the public so that will be of great service that is your duty so prophet is saying if you know science and you cannot prove this then you are not a devotee not that you say now I'm a devotee and I don't care for science no it must be there somebody might say shouldn't we learn about Krishna instead of what matter that science studies because we say science it's all about matter proper said the pure devotees of the Lord this isn't bhagavatam second control however can equally relish the nectar in the form of the profound philosophical discourses about material creation and in the form of kissing by the Lord in the rasa dance as there is no mundane distinction between the two he continues to write in the purport that there were only seven days and perishes Mirage is asking in the slow car please explain to me how the Lord made this phenomenal creation propers writes in the purport that there are only seven days and parishes did not say there is no time he pries directly go to rasa dance nada para su ke Goswami chastise him saying there's only seven days left and why do you want to know about the creation what kind of attachment you have you're supposed to leave all this and go to go no because if you are discussing properly there is no difference between discussions about matter and material creation in fact later we will see purposes you should learn this first about matter exactly like there is no difference whether a kitchen is offered to Krishna or Tappin book most Maha Prasad but if you don't have a good digestion kitchen is better than Maya process seven book so if we don't know anything it is better we learn about matter fast then directly enter so then you can say then white is proper actually emphasized so much about we are not the body's spirit right why didn't he talk about matter this is a very interesting the conversation we have seen and then Swami for me there is some distinction between the nature of the soul and the nature of the body Prabhupada that distinction is inconceivable you cannot make clear distinction therefore it's called a Cynthia not clear distinction between body and soul you cannot make very thin and then that distinction between the soul and the body I mean certainly how can you say this you mean you're teaching as this purposes yes you cannot make a clear distinction therefore it is called a cinta Beta Beta inconceivable one and different simultaneously we are not vita' matter is difference for soul is different we are not advaitha there's only soul we are not materialist there's only matter but matter and spirit are there but they're one and different simultaneously so everything and then sometimes people ask proper these questions are not to be discussed in public these are very higher understanding for public should be this is matter this is spirit that's all that means we are general public to whom proper thought this is mater this is spirit always applied to yourself not to others when proper says everything is to others not to me isn't it we always think proper is criticizing the world why would he do that he's a pure devotee but the why should he criticize me because we are his followers we are his disciples it's his duty it says kindness to point out we are fools this is 1971 of course these are all deep topics now you can ask me then why are we say why are you talking about this well you see if you should not be public once you come inside and one you don't you are practicing and they continue then that's not so good so again bhagavatam contains theology philosophy and science and you cannot know unless you first know science and then you can know philosophy and then you can know even philosophers have accepted there is something called context of justification and context of what is that context of justification and context of Theory creation and they say that philosophy must function only in the context of justification so someone like wine said that philosophy of sciences philosophy enough he said you just follow science and do philosophy that's enough philosophy don't simply act yak yak independent of science things they have come to that conclusion on sober grounds and Krishna consciousness is a sciences later philosophy and later theology now you can say but Prabhupada said just chant know everything you know we are just stuck on this in other words we have reduced everything to the lowest parameter suppose you say no I simply accept that I don't understand all this I'll just chant proper has told me ok then why do you present yourself as Authority when you speak we speak we are the greatest isn't it at least we should say Prabhu there are 70 books you know there's so many things there I I don't know anything I have simply accepted that I'll chant that's what I'm going to do right at least that much we should say no I'm great I'm this and that I'm Selassie Guru Krishna says that out of many millions of people one may understand him but by chanting of this our equation as introduced by Lord Chaitanya chanting and dancing you can understand Krishna within a very short time for the first time he put some useful good this is real Krishna consciousness why didn't he put this first yeah but the problem is in the next sentence Rafa says knowledge begins not from Krishna in other words if you chant he can come to know Krishna but don't think that the first stop is Krishna not that he chanted you'll immediately know Krishna no what will he know but from things which are accustomed to see everyday knowledge begins by understanding objects this is the science part of Krishna conscious this is such things are there so we have what is called folk theology what is folk theology which doesn't know the barrio science doesn't know bog earth philosophy but you just read through common sense and you understand something you have got past Punia Shraddha other Shanda and then you can get some understanding this folk theology is sufficient to those who have faith but academic theology is needed to reach out to wider audience if you want to present theology also you should present academic theology for modern presentations philosophy and science in fact science and philosophy in the bottom come first theology comes later we saw their proper set apart from Vedas and Puranas according to this is if we want to so proper wrote insanity caesar as soon as we say from Shastra they will say it is all my apology then how will you meet modern times is happening right it's very difficult to and it's going to get worse Scalia is going to progress therefore Prabhupada has set up this scientific presentation all I'm trying to tell you is scientific presentation is not what you think it is that's what I'm trying to say we will see this in the moment without proper grounding in philosophy and science folk theology can be even incorrect we will see that now right what is our philosophy and science regarding causality now causality you said cos means the reason but you see Krishna is the cause of off now this sentence Krishna is the cause of all causes can be seen theologically then the focus is on Krishna Krishna is the cause of all causes that's theology it's correct but there is you know philosophy the focus is cause and their ideas are there are many types of definitions for cause there is a proximate cause you see suppose he went out and he got wet somebody said why did he get wet oh it was raining yeah but he also went with you he didn't get wet for he was wearing raincoat or that is the cause you got wet not because of the rain but because you didn't have raincoat so there is a proximate cause there's a distant cost and ultimate cost like that so philosophers want to discuss proximate cause that is one thing there can be cost without necessity also why did he go to the airport where my father was coming so the father coming was the cost for going to the airport but you could have decided also not to go maybe you are angry with him I won't go so it is not necessary that the cost must always produce the effect was his philosophers have discussed that there are many 20-30-40 definitions of course philosopher sir there's another one cost can be not even occurring but it can produce a effect and if a child is asking the mother can I go to play mother says if it doesn't rain today evening can I go to play when I come back from school if it doesn't rain you can play in the evening there was no rain this child went to play so no no rain is not a physical event but it is a cause of a physical event she went to play before this actually happens in quantum mechanics and there is there is also this idea of possible worlds by Lewis and all that is a vast a field I am just putting everything in summary form so how are you going to understand philosophically which idea of cause is this cause because a philosopher would say when you say Krishna is a cause of all causes what do you mean by cause you can't say the reason that is folk philosophy or folk theology I don't know all these things then then you do not know philosophically how Krishna is the cause of all causes you understand it turns out the idea of there is another idea of causality which says that that is called intra level is causality and Inter level is complementarity okay that is my idea and you know all these fields I have developed the bhagavata my dears of science and physics by the way which is accepted by in the Western universities and taught there it's not that I'm just saying but you know so there is another notion of cost that is the actual meaning of the word cost we don't know that you may say I we don't need these things but these are all have been discussed by Prabhupada in modern science the cost is focus is still the focus but you'll have to mathematically formulate a notion of cause yeah and that also can be done from algorithm and that also we have done at our Institute it is we'll have to revise the notion of complex numbers well you may not even know what is complex numbers how are you going to know what is the scientific meaning of Krishna is the cause of all causes so without knowing science without knowing philosophy without knowing theology by knowing folk theology we do folk philosophy and folk science and give all kinds of arguments so what is our preaching going to be based on so this is what I said is Greenglass preaching see suppose you wear a green glass the world looks green I gave this example last time but I can repeat it I myself think about it all the time I myself one green glass guy so this my position itself is bad so please do not think that this is this is to glorify bhagavatam and Krishna and prabhupada Prabhupada rights in the first canto second canto first chapter 8 verse proper says srimad-bhagavatam or for that matter any other scientific literature Wow how could any only proper can write that srimad-bhagavatam or for that matter any other scientific literature isn't that an amazing sentence he's saying bhagavatam is the real scientific book or other things medicine in engineering for other mathematics that's from apart saying and you can't just claim that boggle thumb is scientific literature being ignorant we are completely soaked in the extraordinary overconfidence so we know the truth not only we know the truth we know absolute truth we know so little that we don't even know that we don't know our ignorance is only exceeded by our ignorance that we are ignorant but aren't we all thinking we know everything srimad-bhagavatam cannot be read and understood the science and philosophy in the bottom cannot be found by speculation it has to be revealed they began their day Prakash Tito you can go through your entire life without learning what is bug-out them in the olden days that is another coat of proper proper said five thousand years ago that's all right becquer Gita progress it it's not good enough for modern you can say that this Kali Yuga is very important this Kali Yuga is very important very unique you know the reasons all of you why is it unique this Kali Yuga among all Callejas this is unique why what is that see we know that Satan tomorrow we may not know the meaning of that but we believe this is faith and the faith comes from past Pune this is very good but 99.9999% of world population is not having faith and in fact they are worse and worse and worse they're going to get worse are you following this I was explaining that a lot of times faith comes from okay two o'clock 2:15 a lot of times you see faith comes from Agatha's security Wagener security means security we get without we do something else but krishna takes it as devotional service like in padma purana there is this rat who's was on the altar and his tail got fire and he was jumping up and down and krishna said oh he's doing Aarti and he sent him back to my Kanta it's right oh yeah that's a good thing of course he must have been you know considerable diverse Almira quite ever it is similarly some guy could be in one town looking for a bar and he's going round and round in the taxi but in centers a Krishna temple Krishna says always doing for sectional circumambulation give him some credit Krishna is always giving credit but Kali Yuga is such that it is very difficult for Krishna to give you an idea security they have nothing it's going to get very terribly worse and you can say I don't know I don't care all of that but I have come just so that I can save myself that's ok then make it clear don't say we are preaching moment we are delivering people proper said we are not parcel service we give a book to people and if they ask what is in the book I don't know or we say what you deliver a personally as a postman what is in the parcel you'll stretch for you you open and see why you ask me we can't say that we should know but what we know it cannot be just whatever we have concocted Greenglass the green glass is that somebody was completely blind and someone gave him a green glass by which he can suddenly see he cannot still actually see things as they are because everything is green but at least he can get around so we were spiritually blind proper gave a powerful book which when it is going through our mind becomes green glass just like a milk he put it in a button but on the top of the button there's AG and accapella then you get Gundam does the gun back appetiser mind and intelligence useless that's all we use to study boggle some design harikrishna that's okay to start but you have to go past it that says why bother with them is written seven beautiful bhagavatam that's why it's called srimad-bhagavatam srimad means beautiful the book is beautiful srimad-bhagavatam I'm not even getting into all of that this is just wrong so when we didn't know anything then we got this green glass it was good enough to say oh this material world is a rose material life is Maya oh I must become a devotee I must chant very good but you still don't know things as they are dream glass so then you say how many years you have been in green glass five years I am ten years I'm more senior too you know history so if somebody told me I was a senior devotee somebody asked him why he has been seeing green glass 40 years Oh what is the use of that this is a green glass preaching are we going to do at least karma philosophers and scientists they are based on empiricism actual observations proper drives oh they are circulators no the supreme personality of Godhead is actually realized in the vision of a material philosopher and scientist through the manifestations of his material energy through that they are studying he didn't say they're fools did he say saying they're factually realizing God so that fool is for us not for the scientists why you believed him but he also believes no he doesn't believe their theories are all provisional tomorrow another theory will come they're simply dumping Bank or Darwin immediately but it has to be atheistic that is important that's what they are looking for okay our scientific preaching a term the proper never used propose always said scientific presentations of Krishna consciousness never scientific preaching those two words don't go well scientific preaching is based on folk theology and at best folk philosophy and for science people say no if you see a garden then you know there's a gardener if you see a watch there must be a watchmaker there's no wrong arguments proper never gave them he it looks like he gave but his comments are very sophisticated we don't know and we argue there's just like there's a watch there's a watchmaker like that there's ordered creation there must be a creator no no this is not it is incorrect it's philosophically incorrect scientifically incorrect geologically incorrect because a watch is a machine ok Beijing is made by the watchmaker but he's also a machine the machine can always make a machine we have we make machines numerically controlled laser automatic miss that make other machines what's the problem they will say you follow so how are you going to just because there is a watchmaker doesn't prove you have to go outside matter no because no the watchmaker is leaving oh ok then your argument is something what is life then that little go on like that but if you think that the argument there is a watch is made by a watchmaker therefore like the world must be made a world maker know that world maker if it is there that will also be inside this world for example they accept that you know like life must have been seeded from other planets panspermia that is idea there's also inside this world we don't we'll have to see ok so what is called scientific preaching in so many bhakti vedanta institutes around the world this is going on unfortunately and also there are science teachers for science and spirituality all over the world and it's gone this is all folk theology it's not right but at least our bhakti vedanta institute we have the here is the website is based on academic theology but that academic theology is based on our actual scientific and philosophical work and for that we have this other institute institute of semantics information Sciences and Technology insists this is actually based on the philosophy and science of bhagavatam it is affiliated to the University of Mumbai it is not another green glass presentation no it's it's not created by me science and philosophy in strict scholarly terms cannot be presented so proper drives religion we saw that religion will not be accepted in modern civilization if it is not accept from a scientific so this is actually systematically it should be presented I am NOT even now talking about science and philosophy or bhagavata I can give a lecture on that but in fact I'm going to show some examples now you may say whoa okay you are doing some science maybe it's your service why do you come and bother us I think most of your thing you like that no so we know enough to preach we go outside people are believing one fool making another fool he will also never go past you he will present the same Greenglass things that's all that is my proper throat in issue upon a proper that's written this that if you take shelter of a neophyte devotee you cannot go past that neophyte devotee is written of course Rama says that with respect to gurus but it's also a good aspect for preaching us if you heard from a Greenglass preacher that's where you'll stay in Greenglass how we are going to remove the green glass somebody has to come and remove it it's very powerful anyway therefore Prabhupada said the institute will be primarily for those who have not entered our temples that's 99.9 percent of the world so the reach of this preaching is far greater than Krishna consciousness the subject matter will not be different from what is taught in our temples but the Institute will be official for the general mass it will be formal education they will get degree it will be open for everyone including those who have already entered our temples so you cannot say this is for others not from me prefer the Senate size for both so I give an example so I'm being working science is very complicated and I've been doing it for 40 years and going on I'm not rushing to write some books or you know this is done for Krishna it's an offering of loud for whatever I do I have written of course more than 50 academic papers which if you really cannot understand at all because it signs from bhagavata many many devotees say we really are both papers on book I don't find anything connection to it of course you don't that's a proof the criticism it is good knowledge you know anyway so but I write this all for only two persons Prabhupada and lot Chetan yeah that's all who else will read who else will not read it's not a bother but you will see we will see now Westerners I have read it scientists and scholars they are taking it up there's a different matter I wasn't so this science can also help us to preach just two weeks ago or a week ago I was I was a know why were the hospital in question and then near question and then I on the last day I was coming I was taking a car five o'clock I was coming by I asked the taxi driver five o'clock do you have any questions he said yes I said yeah what is it so why do you people worship only Krishna good question taxi driver in Cochin I said so who do you worship he said I was a pie a pie I also worship Shiva now we have to answer him right he's not a atheist so he's asking why do you worship what will you say why do you worship Krishna say something what do I get a says Krishna Krishna says mam ekam saranam oh we are not saying I've also given that argument right any other argument why do you worship Krishna watering the root of the tree if you remember in the beginning slide I put that's philosophy and science they try to understand certain terms like causality objects reality so I told him now we were I'm not saying this is a correct answer the best answer or anything like that but based on my scientific work I gave and I'm said you people can decide whether it is okay or not if you don't like you reject it but I told him that we worship Krishna because only Krishna exists nobody else exists how can you worship anybody else in other words sometimes people say God is everything in existence sum total of all that is in existence no that's not God God is different from all that is in existence in fact everything else exists only because of connection to him otherwise they don't exist just like there is an object here what is it cellphone but it is a cell phone only if I use it as a cell phone if I am not using it as a cell phone it has no capacity to act as a cell phone can it a watch is not a watch unless so unless Krishna uses anything nothing is real nothing can act as if it even exists so he told Brahma and the Stratos Loki that know it for certain that anything that's not connected to me is illusion it doesn't exist so if you say there is a chair its illusion but if you actually you know I'm the chair makeup person sit and then speak Baga with them then it is real this is you know the idea of using everything dovetailing everything in krishna's service but this is not just an idea is it actually scientifically real that we won't come into this thing but so I told him that only Krishna X's but idea I have come from through science science is coming to the point of saying that reality and what do you observe to exist you know they're not connected anyway it's a long story I don't want to get into that now do I want to say things that somebody gets a license to speculate but the point is that from science I said this that Krishna is the only person who exists to the extent everything is connected to Krishna other things exist therefore you can only first worship Krishna and only to the extent they are connected you can worship Shiva higher power or anybody because they are connected to otherwise you cannot worship them we also worship we also give respect why wouldn't be was not worship Bloch you were right or Indra Candra were but because they're connected to Krishna I told him like when we started where did I say we should go Airport but I'm a-goin just to the airport no where am I going he said Terminal one arm but I didn't say that there first you have to go to the airport then you can go to terminal 1 first you have to worship Krishna then you can actually worship others we worship the Westerners that he announced a masculine therefore you must know who is Krishna at this point that Krishna is the only one who exists how may I agree Krishna says in the beginning in bhagam Rig Veda says Narayana I agree Neruda 9 Rana would go sleep report quotes that so I Greg here doesn't mean in the beginning I agree means in the first first Krishna exists then only anybody else can exist there is no question of this and existing unless I recognize it proper gave the example if somebody's finger is cutting it on the ground it's not a finger it looks like a finger which is not a finger and as it's connected to someone and is used by him it's not a finger similarly we are not soul proper said unless we are connected to Krishna we are named only small so we're actually we are not so almost like the spark is almost extinguished still it is there my christmas mercy it's existing because he is also inside our heart so we are not fully extinguished so if you want to understand Krishna then you can actually meditate how Krishna is independent of everything that kind of meditation you can get if you understand the science of Krishna consciousness which is a science about matter and objects from that you can understand Krishna in that nice way God our Big Bang people will say God devotees but if you say the world that's created by Big Bang is in fact created by God that's wrong if you understand science and philosophy you know the world created by Big Bang and the world created by Krishna are two different things so God our Big Bang will say both Big Bang for the world that you think you live in and God for the world that we know we are living in that's the science so to argue that no Big Bang is a foolish thing you know it's not like there is no you have to know our Siddhanta first Siddhanta means science philosophy and those who have not learned from an expert spiritual master what is soul and what is matter cannot understand the existence of the soul within the body without knowing the matter it's not possible to know spirit therefore Krishna says nasa-tv deity bhavanibabu widget esata hubiera P distant oh oh by order P by studying both they have come to the temple by studying matter only you cannot know that's what current scientists are doing by studying only spirit you cannot know properly then we shouldn't be doing that but actually we should study both matter and spirit first those who are in the material world must first of all know how the extent and energy of the Lord is working under the direction of the supreme before and afterwards one may try to enter the activities so this is Krishna consciousness as a science this is introduction to that after this we will do of course an online course on the science of Krishna but first you must know that there is a science in it that my Greenglass I have to keep so this green when devotees join the temple we should tell them this green glass preaching you do outside that's good enough here shut your mouth and listen and then somebody must be there who has gotten out of the green glass otherwise the same thing will keep on going okay there are four proper rights in the third canto this verse is the potential basis of great scientific research work and you know again scientific knowledge engaged in the service of the Lord and all similar activities are factually harrogate than our glorification of the Lord okay you can distribute the feedback forms there is just pranced a bunch and they can passed everybody sometimes you might think why should we why are you talking so much about matter here is a bottom verse the principle of matter is the consciousness of the Lord so what you call as matter is actually the consciousness of the Lord so we are not going away from the Lord if you study matter that's why they are able to understand God the scientists proper says okay so this is feminized sometimes I put this up what the scientists are saying about our work I was very interested in the talk by dr. Ravi go madam that was not a boggart in class it was about science because he showed by some nice arguments is the proper way to think of quantum mechanics is in terms of relationships this is a new way of thinking which is perhaps how we can get out of the confusions it may be that this is how we should be doing science and this person is a Nobel laureate in quantum physics it's not such a stir nobody and you should know that this problem of quantum mechanics has been around for more than 100 years and more than 18 million scientists have tried to solve it 18 million scientists nobody has even found what is actual problem there are so many guys who say I've got a solution there's so many interpretation but Einstein in 1954 said now every Tom Dick and Harry things yes I understood quantum mechanics but is in illusion all the quantum mechanics noble is except that we don't know what it is till today and through bhagavatam this can be solved and it looks like we are solving because they're saying this is the way it should be this is science coming from bhagavatam okay this is another thing this is personal Srikant and who is a former director of TFR dr. gum Tom has proposed a new approach according to which quantum theory uses some term statistics probably anyway he says I have proposed a new approach and it's based on bhagavatam that's some important point regarding Bohr oh I see how lack knowledge expect MacKinnon himself is here I was telling you in the car right and makinen himself is expert on both okay so people are saying like that there's a NATO funded paper they say we agree with gamma Tom that we should revise our notions of matter and energy okay this is in Brown University one of my papers students have to write and write a report Brown is an an Ivy League university and University of Connecticut is one of my papers is their first as part of a course on ecology like that okay all right so this is coming to the coast then that's what it is and you know so basically I want you to know that the Institute of semantic information Science and Technology in summary in Bagram there is theology philosophy and science they can be known only in the sequence that he first knows material science then philosophy then theology but we are simply reading and out of our Shraddha and past Punia we are able to understand something it's not like we don't understand it's a fact internally whatever you have is you know it's a good understanding of Krishna but if you want to present it in a detailed way you will not find it possible it is good enough for you and for others who have got shut down those who would come to the temple talk with them we can preach but if you want to preach to those who will not come to the temple it is not possible unless you present matters scientifically that proper repeatedly said and to present it scientifically means you have to know it has to go you have to go beyond the Greenglass we sing every day the vegan has a Prakash Ito but I got a demonstrate that you have got it the vegan Jose Prakash Ito means remove the ganda capita and for the good milk directly the vegan has a Prakash Ito means remove the green glass and put inside so when the Acharya teaches you in the heart and he will teach that when under some conditions that has to be also taught then and only the same you can understand the science of Krishna consciousness so we have two Institute's the Institute for semantic information sciences and technology that is actually presenting the science and also philosophy and the bhakti vedanta institute is representing the theology because that is okay that's how we have decided the work divided the work proper said this scientific work of the Institute which is not VI which is Institute of semantic information Science and Technology our most important preaching arm it will enhance the procedure of discount the first way you can support is to understand our work and then to appreciate it so that way I am very thankful that you all at least are sitting down and today and if you understand it that itself is a great support because when devotees understand and when you say this is good that is a blessing and when I get devotees blessings then Krishna will be more pleased even though it is his service just go through devotees so when if you need so that way I am very happy that you're even understanding it that is itself is support and we are trying to develop the infrastructure and that's going on you know and I don't want to go into the fact that the Institute has not only the movement has not only not understood our work not only it has not supported it there's a post it we have B BT telling us you know that if you do scientific preaching then we'll give you funds I've never said that so it is some kind of a concoction some kind of a not understanding anything and just speaking you cannot say that I have a scientific degree I know no that is not science you by having a scientific degree you can know the science outside you cannot know the science in the Bhagavata for that you have to be a scientist and you have to do the work more than the scientists so we have done it and that's why the scientists appreciate our work they say this is a way to do science that's not an ordinary thing and thank you all growed Sheela proper then go and please fill up your thank you thank you very much I guess yes I would take some questions but in you can also fill up everybody please do fill up and give feedback whatever feedback you have will be useful for us so don't think it is not devotees whatever they express it I value I'm not saying that you people don't know anything I'm just saying that there's more to be learnt who can argue that you cannot say we know everything and yeah so in the meanwhile I will take questions but please do do fill out the thing anybody has any questions put your hands up yes sir Haresh new Prabhu one of the one of the arguments which is made is that this there are two types of knowledge explicit and implicit like the birds may not be knowing the equations of aerodynamics but this fly so is it required that devotees need to explicitly understand the principles of science for being able to preach is it enough that they just of course what will you preach otherwise you are ignorant fool and you just say everything wrong and what is this preaching in spite of your preaching people are coming not because of your preaching you are basically saying can I remain ignorant and also preach how you can preach vasudevay bhagavati bhakti-yoga Praja taha's Janita a su Ghanim severe argument have had to come no spiritualist ever was a spiritualist without knowing matter there's no base evidence for that at all and by autumn which talks about matter for pages and pages and pages before he can go so if you say I will no Krishna without knowing matter propolis rejected it Summerlee rejected he said if you chant you will know okay you may say that I may not want to go to college and study signs of course you cannot that science is useless but the science and the bhagavata material science you have to be revealed it cannot be you cannot know it and you must know it you follow what I'm saying you must know if he said now you're only chant or you chant but proper says you'll come to know it in other words if you are if your argument is that I may not have to know science the way you are doing and that will also be wrong because this is all legit aeneas bringing it this is for the whole world but I have some direct access I'll chant yes but you must know this as a result of chanting you cannot know Krishna without saying I don't know matter that's not possible that proper said ruled it out so this mentality is not the standard why do I have to know this of course you have to this is like asking do I have to know about them to become a devotee there are some people who say I will only chant no you cannot chant only or modes of material nature will finish us that is right so everything must be known there's a method there's a procedure there's nothing explicit or implicit okay that was some kind of a so crash this type of argument you know he is to always demonstrate that you what do you think you don't know you know and that's okay but knowledge if Prabhupada has said in Baga with them that if after doing Krishna consciousness you do not arrive to knowledge there's something wrong so the issue is not about knowing material science as Kermes do but the issue is to actually know Baga with them scientifically and that means knowing matter and spirit and God so in the bhagavad-gita for example engineer introduction prophet writes that understanding bhagavad-gita entails entails means no option understanding matter spirit god karma and the activity for matter is mentioned you will never prabhu parts mentioned knowledge without knowledge of christian knowledge of krishna includes knowledge of the categories that must be understood and in fact first so the point is not that one must know material science the way they are doing that is the way we are bringing it in that is why the pre institute is set up proper said now all of you PhDs work so it's our job but everybody will come to understand all this i was just the other day walking next to a house in chennai there was a buying no what do you call the servant lady support see if seventy years old very literate sitting outside and she was studying in tamil to some daughter or something i'm child my cell phone has got no charge so i am charging it and I have not solar for download at that app tomorrow I'll download I was completely yes I'm used I wanted to go on and ask her you know what do you mean by download what do you know download what's happening when you download you can't ask that's become there yeah my one day I was going on the street was raining one fellow what Kurt says it sir please don't go that way I said why I said that wire is there you'll say you'll get shocked I know why he'll get shocked well there's current in it what is current he's not going to say current is a flow of electrons you know it's an average flow east yes belief so like that when science is brought we do the hard work then everybody will understand today in fact I have given so many ideas which are very difficult to know unless you have done lot of research but everybody is getting the benefit so if your question is whether you need to do material understand material science to do this kind of work yes but do you I save all the devotees do they have to know material science to understand the bag of them no but you will understand the science of matter and amalgam through this work this is a center so this institute is essential for that this institute is essential for expanding the horizon of Nagas with knowledge and there is lot 10 years project not mine I didn't figure out all this ha let us do this matter listen that is another class did I answer your question this is a good question and you know it's an important question I hope you all understood this question and my answer yes anybody else doesn't yes put your hand up if you have a question ha for that you have to take a small piece of paper printed by the bank and you have to put some numbers on it and sign it and maybe I'll tell you she is asking the question you said this idea that there must be watch in place a watchmaker argument is not good scientifically and theologically to say that there is a creator behind this creation so what should be the argument since you have asked I'll give you a little bit concealed answer it will all come later right now slowly slowly I have this coat in my phone I hope I can find it who sent it to me horrible who sent that hallucination got Prabhupada you know that we said that material world just give me a second here Prabhupada I had a quart of pro pada who sent it to me yes I got it no one stop here is another important code of proper now you know everything how to be a Western of a brahmana now you must practice this thing or the whole thing will be shown li doesn't want show bottle things better to develop a small number of devotees we have make them truly Krishna conscious boys and girls than to go on getting many followers who do not understand and practice the real principles proper this rating better one moon that many stars so this we should not be in competition to make devotees I'm not saying we are but I'm just saying properly this was when proposed was present on the planet and proper always said towards you know the later part of is con time many was represent on the planet he said boiled the milk boil the milk because the milk there is water and when he boiled the water will go milk will be so we have so much water where is the water coming from from the ganda capita mind and intelligence its concocting like mad it took me more than 28 years in the moment before I could understand that everything I knew was nonsense and believe me I was known as a good preacher now I barely preached I probably prefers mercy I realized everything that I knew is meaningless because that's it is not that that whatever I knew before was wrong that is to say we can go further further there is a know you can be a MSC in mathematics but a top guy a PhD professor can teach you things there was a pro mathematics professor from Penn State and I told him about one theorem and he was blown away said there's such a theorem in my Mattox can you give me your computer I want to check the internet in my own office I've been checked and he said wow I never knew this theorem existed so on or any Yamaha Tomoya and there will be another guy who can blow my mind there is one person already fortunately in my life who can blow my mind every day and that's route path and I'm very happy you know but the point is that we can always learn more that's the meaning of what I'm saying so Prabhupada says I'm trying various that quote by Sony while I was sitting here do something mmm who gave me that coat let me try this for just it's a very interesting court so give me just second Hari Krishna Hari Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Rama Rama Rama Hari hurry hurry hurry wrong anyway Sheila Prabhupada said he said this material world is a hallucination of course from a father said also material world is real but temporary we are not my bodies but Crawford also said this material world is a hallucination so unless you understand you'll have to get that particular coordinate is a conversational day and Prabhupada said that so unless you know how this material world is a hallucination you cannot prove or know that krishna is a creator of this world befall so I have to teach you that did he know that this material is all assassination no no no this it's a science so on and just because why do you say but I asked you did you read I didn't ask did you know that this material world is Allah's nation then we must make a distinction between reading and knowing so now answer me do we know that this material is all this name yeah in it's gone whenever we say something every devotee will give explanation for it you will never ask you what does it mean oh yeah I remember I read that I remember I read this yeah I read so what you read something so what in order to know for example I am NOT the body you need to have mystical knowledge suppose here it is not like you are driving a car and I'm not the car that anybody can see I'm not the car and the car got into accident I can get out the car is damaged I am not damaged listen enthralled ani my it is this is not ordinary entre it's not like a car you follow what I'm saying from the car I can get out and go right I see this is a table a chair I'd I know that this is I'm not the chair why is it that you don't know I am NOT the body why are we affected by it good question are not important or not you don't know and you don't know you don't know green glass now let me tell you little clue now please try to understand that suppose you say there is a chair in front of me and suppose you say I have a headache all I haven't know meuk which are almost no it won't have this age you follow what I'm saying right I see a chair there I see I feel a pain here are they the same kind of statement pain and chair are they are they of the same type or different different chair you can externalize it's not me the pain is part of you you cannot say I'm not the pain correct but they are the same kind the chair is as much part of you as pain is you should know I have to teach you but it is just take the conclusion and if you can say that chair is separate from me you can also say the pain is separate from me so the body is also your experience it's not an object it is exactly like pain in the neck or pain in the knee bodies so you are not able to separate but these are actually separate from you therefore Krishna says mattress purchase the county seat ocean Asuka do kata guruma boy you know and Italy stamped addiction Barton he says these are not real therefore tolerate Krishna I didn't say oh you're feeling so much pain I will remove it he's you Prabhupada in one tape said you go to sadhus the sod will say that we will remove your problems but Krishna is the greatest subtle and he didn't say I will remove your problems he said tolerate it because it's not real so if you say I am poor we make me rich we are basically telling Krishna that you give me instead of one illusion another illusion is it that is the meaning of the towpath statement that the old lady was going with stack of firewood it was painting and no he said Oh Krishna and Krishna appeared and said what do you want he said can he please put this on this shoulder Krishna says sure and he put it on that shoulder and she felt relief but this pain has started so Krishna but the deeper point of that a scientific point is there is something known as a problem of qualia in science today morning I saw when very famous Indian as written you know someone dr. Chopra some complete nonsense somebody sent it to me that you know pain and color and smell and paste or a lot part of the physical world for this reason bla bla bla bla so what they are part of the physical world they're not part of you indriyani piranha yahood India para maana ha is he this is there now let me write that I'll read that in fact ya dr. Deepak Chopra come on quick quick anyway he made this point that and how can he ever not even understand it's not the body are you following it is not so easy to know everything in the world is an experience can you say that your little baby is only an experience not real therefore it is difficult for ladies to take sannyas this is a scientific reason created by God that body this it is not something to be you know know that that that keeps the world going affection of the mother if it is not there how can the world learn the mother doesn't take care of a child how will it go right therefore it is there that's not the form in which you can take sannyas but you can take sannyas by chastity for a man in Rome acharya and for a woman chastity it is a Vedic principle everywhere you can go from science so are you following the body is an experience it's not an object now I'll give you a clue prophet has said this in bhagavad-gita and only one place in all these books in the thirteenth chapter figure it out so it is all there is not I'm not saying this it's all there you cannot see it you cannot understand it are you following so the world is also not an object are you following now therefore what did Krishna create you have to know before you can say Krishna created it are you know clear becoming clear I'm just giving little Cruz if we think the world is an object that's not what Krishna created and Big Bang is sufficient for that that is why how King said that well you know God is not necessary for us to create theories about creation of course because we are creating theories from what the world it's called the external world so it's a deep science I can explain it to you very simply also but I don't want to okay then it'll get misused let it wait till the science comes out is that clear lots of things are there so much to say any other questions otherwise ah meaning of a phenomenal and nominal who asked that question I say who told that to you to ask not if we discuss confidential knowledge I always say what Prabhupada people may not understand proper but they cannot misunderstand it may clear whatever you say I'm the exact opposite not only you will not understand what I say but he'll also misunderstand but because this work is Right know very confidential but it's going to come out very soon but I'll wait it is not my knowledge it's not Chaitanya's knowledge it'll come out when he wants just like if somebody gave you 1 million dollar said you keep it whenever I tell somebody he gives that knowledge you are not rich you have got the money when he says he'll distribute like that whatever I have I'm not a wise man with lots a 10 years knowledge whenever he wants it will come out but I my only sincere desire and prayer and humble submission to all of you is that you please understand that Krishna consciousness is a different process this thing of just reading through our own mind and intelligence is ok in the beginning I can say more things you'll get shocked do I want we will stop here please return the feedback forms and I think they'll be Prasad them after this I will also get some pressure on but no no I don't know after the class I'm not sure okay people might say you didn't say Krishna one time no I did sacred knowledge sometimes few times I said grant Rashi mad-bhavam key Sheila Pro pod key

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